(Msg. 1) Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:37 am Post subject: Memory usage confusion
I have looked around everywhere but still haven't found an explination to memory usage.
Since it is established that a 32 bit OS only can support 4GB of physical RAM, adding more just will not benefit you in any sort of way. What I don't understand is how a Terminal Server can support more than 20 users comfortably. Lets take my server for instance. It is by no means a slow server. It is beyond what the requirements are, yet runs extremely slow when users log in and use various application.
A user uses roughly 200MB of memory idle. This temporarily increases depending on what the user is doing of course, but is steady 200MB when idle. Do the math, 20 users and you are up in 4GB of memory, and this is when they all are idle and not doing anything. So how can a server that runs a 32 bit OS support even 10 users?
I increased the pagefile to 20-30GB and that help some. However, since I runs RAID-0, it is written twice and the performance is not by any means great anyhow. I bought a new sataII disk that I will specifically use for multiple page files, but I can't imagine that it will make much of a difference.
So with this in mind, having to have a very high end server to serve only 10 people (and that still questionable), in where is it to once's advantage to run a Terminal Server besides from centralized administration? What I really am trying to get to is the memory usage, it just doesn't make any sense to me and I hope that someone could explain this so that I understand...Vera?
(Msg. 2) Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 5:41 pm Post subject:
I'm not very good at this, but the picture that you get when looking at memory usage in Task Manager doesn't tell it all.
It doesn't take shared memory into account. If all users run the same application, it's only loaded into memory once, AFAIK.
But 200 MB per user when they are idle sounds ridiculous! I would have a very hard look at which processes your users are running when they are logged in but have not started any applications. Which one is taking so much memory?
(Msg. 3) Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 12:00 pm Post subject:
This is a listing of a normal user when logged in, using average amount of memory:
UnlockerAssistant.exe 2,796 K (Used when a file is occupird by Windows for no reason)
iexplorer.exe 80,000 K (IE7 - depending on user, this can be 2 or 3 instances with same amount of memory)
rdpclip.exe 3,816 K
ISUSPM.exe 13,980 K
OUTLOOK.EXE 60,000 K
acrotray.exe 8,800 K
explorer.exe 15,620 K
FileMaker Pro.exe 7,160 K
msnmsgr.exe 30,668 K
agent.exe 4,212 K
ctfmon.exe 3,900 K
avgcc.exe 280 K
iisch.exe 1,952 K
EXCELL.EXE 82,300 K
WINWORD.EXE 85,000 K
This is a normal user. For some it is more and for some less. PF Usage is constant between 3.50 GB - 4.30 GB when everyone is logged in.
I installed a SATA2 disk yesterday, added 10 pagefiles 4 GB each on it. This was advised and it should speed up things. But today it seems overall slower instead than having one large pagefile on the system disk and hard drive activity is almost constant instead. It absolutely does not make any sense what so ever. I still can't understand how someone can host more than 5 users comfortably on a high end server since I have major performance issues. I am running out of ideas.
(Msg. 4) Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 6:55 pm Post subject:
I'm sorry, but I don't think I can help you with this. As I wrote, I'm not very good at memory management.
But something seems to be wrong with your system, as I have 50 concurrent users happily working on a server which is half as powerful as yours. So the performance problems that tou see are *not* inherent to TS, they are specific for your server. Which means there is hope!
That said, I have a couple of comments:
I believe that creating 10 small page files on a single disk is not a good idea. It means that the write head has to move continuously back and forth over the disk to perform the write operations to these 10 page files. Don't know where you got this advice, but I would create one big pagefile instead. Multiple page files are good when each one of them lies on a separate disk, with a separate disk controller, so that you can have multiple, concurrent read and write operations.
Normal users should *not* be running ISUSPM.EXE.
isuspm.exe is a process that belongs InstallShield from Macrovision. The process automatically checks for the latest updates online for InstallShield. You have to make sure that isuspm.exe only runs for the Administrator, or on the console, or as a service, or whatever the possibilities are.
If I were you, I'd write to a public newsgroup instead, the audience is much bigger there.
You could start with the microsoft.public.windows.terminal_services newsgroup, but you could also check on google or microsoft to find a newsgroup which is more focused on hardware.
(Msg. 5) Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2008 8:17 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Windows Server 2003 does not support a larger page file than 4GB. Therefore I had to split them up and create 10 different ones. If I go down to 4GB in only one file, the systems crawls.
You can read more here if you are interested.
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;237740
How do I make sure that no one is running isuspm.exe? I haven't set anywhere that anyone can use it and the settings are default. How this is possible in this case is beyond me.
I'll take up on your advice on joining a newsgroup. Though never ventured into such a thing before, the idea sounds good.
(Msg. 6) Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 5:06 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.]
About isuspm.exe: I've no idea, since I've never used it, but there are not so many possibilities. It's either started through a shortcut in the All User - Startup folder, or though an entry in the registry, most likely the Run key. Search the registry for it.
(Msg. 7) Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 12:23 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.]
I noticed something yesterday. Under Performance Options and under the Advanced tab, in the memory usage section, Adjust for best performance of: was set to System cache. I changed that to Programs and the system now runs much better. Lots of memory is still used but it now never goes over 4GB. It's ridiculous that this is not set by default when you install Terminal Services. I refuse to believe that this is all I had to do but it sure helped out.
(Msg. 8) Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 5:30 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.]
This *is* the default when you install Terminal Services!
But maybe you installed something else like SQL on it later? That could change the setting again (and that's one of the reasons that a TS should run on a dedicated server).
(Msg. 9) Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 6:42 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.]
The only server role that it does have Terminal Services. I don't run any SQL server and the DC and DHCP servers are on dedicated machines. Since this is the main reason why I totally redid the servers, I made sure not to install any other server roles on it other than TS.
The only software I installed are the following:
FileMaker Pro
AVG 7.5
Adobe Acrobat 8
MS Office 2003
Mozilla Suite
WordPerfect 12
MSN Live Messenger
IE 7
WinRAR
Profile Hive Cleanup Service
Tame 5.0
I don't see why any of those would change this setting.
Regardless, it did help out changing it but the memory usage is still extremely high and on the verge on going to far. As long as it doesn't I'll be fine.
(Msg. 10) Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 1:33 pm Post subject: [Login to view extended thread Info.]
The Windows task manager is confusing because it shows private and shared processes. Lots of API's, .Net runtime, and who knows what else are repeated in the list but not actually duplicated in the operating system. I've heard that about 25% of what you see in Task Manager is more realistic of what each user is really consuming.
You can add /PAE to your boot.ini to extend your virtual memory limit. My servers currently run W2k03 Enterprise with 8GB, dual quad core processors, and 32 GB of virtual memory on SAS drives. Each server supports about 100 users at a time and sometimes a little more. Each user runs a full desktop with applications.
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