Per Vera Noest [MVP]:
>You can create an account at MyCitrix and download it from there:
>
>https://www.citrix.com/lang/English/publicindex.asp?destURL=%
>2FEnglish%2FmyCitrix%2Findex%2Easp%3F


Did the deed.

Am I looking for XenApp, XenDesktop, or XenServer in order to
build my own Citrix box to fool around with?
--
PeteCresswell

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
> Per Vera Noest [MVP]:
>> You can create an account at MyCitrix and download it from there:
>>
>> https://www.citrix.com/lang/English/publicindex.asp?destURL=%
>> 2FEnglish%2FmyCitrix%2Findex%2Easp%3F
>
>
> Did the deed.
>
> Am I looking for XenApp, XenDesktop, or XenServer in order to
> build my own Citrix box to fool around with?

Depends....

Each has a different purpose.

XenApp is what used to be called "Presentation Server".

XenServer is a virtual server (like VMWare)

XenDesktop is, IIRC, meant to provide virtual desktops.

It's probably worth a cruise on Citrix.com.....

--

Regards,
Hank Arnold
Microsoft MVP
Windows Server - Directory Services

Per Hank Arnold (MVP):
>> Am I looking for XenApp, XenDesktop, or XenServer in order to
>> build my own Citrix box to fool around with?
>
>Depends....
>
>Each has a different purpose.
>
>XenApp is what used to be called "Presentation Server".
>
>XenServer is a virtual server (like VMWare)
>
>XenDesktop is, IIRC, meant to provide virtual desktops.
>
>It's probably worth a cruise on Citrix.com.....

Maybe I'm losing my mind.... but nothing I've read so far
actually says what each product does - in concrete terms.

Any idea which one gets installed on a Windows Server box to
supply the "Meta Server" part?
--
PeteCresswell

Seems that you have missed a couple of generations of Citrix
products

What was called Citrix MetaFrame became Citrix Presentation Server,
which now is called Citrix XenApp.
So it's most likely XenApp that you want.

_________________________________________________________
Vera Noest
MCSE, CCEA, Microsoft MVP - Terminal Server
TS troubleshooting: http://ts.veranoest.net
___ please respond in newsgroup, NOT by private email ___

"(PeteCresswell)" <x RemoveThis @y.Invalid> wrote on 12 aug 2008 in
alt.os.citrix:

> Per Hank Arnold (MVP):
>>> Am I looking for XenApp, XenDesktop, or XenServer in order to
>>> build my own Citrix box to fool around with?
>>
>>Depends....
>>
>>Each has a different purpose.
>>
>>XenApp is what used to be called "Presentation Server".
>>
>>XenServer is a virtual server (like VMWare)
>>
>>XenDesktop is, IIRC, meant to provide virtual desktops.
>>
>>It's probably worth a cruise on Citrix.com.....
>
> Maybe I'm losing my mind.... but nothing I've read so far
> actually says what each product does - in concrete terms.
>
> Any idea which one gets installed on a Windows Server box to
> supply the "Meta Server" part?

Per Vera Noest [MVP]:
>Seems that you have missed a couple of generations of Citrix
>products

I've undoubtedly missed a *lot* more than just that.... -)

But the place I work at the most's Citrix login says
"Web Interface for MetaFrame? Presentation Server".
--
PeteCresswell

"(PeteCresswell)" <x.TakeThisOut@y.Invalid> wrote on 13 aug 2008 in
alt.os.citrix:

> Per Vera Noest [MVP]:
>>Seems that you have missed a couple of generations of Citrix
>>products
>
> I've undoubtedly missed a *lot* more than just that.... -)
>
> But the place I work at the most's Citrix login says
> "Web Interface for MetaFrame? Presentation Server".

OK, then they are running some version of Presentation Server.
But what is it that you want? Do you want to use the same version
that is used at your work, or the current version, i.e. XenApp?
If you want the same version as used at your work, your best chances
are to talk to the system manager.
Server licenses cost nothing, you pay per client, so maybe the system
manager already has a test server available for you to use?

Per Vera Noest [MVP]:
>OK, then they are running some version of Presentation Server.
>But what is it that you want? Do you want to use the same version
>that is used at your work, or the current version, i.e. XenApp?
>If you want the same version as used at your work, your best chances
>are to talk to the system manager.
>Server licenses cost nothing, you pay per client, so maybe the system
>manager already has a test server available for you to use?

I'm going on the hope that there's some sort of deal where a
developer can build his own Citrix box and support, say, two
users for no licensing cost.

The reason I'm pursuing this is that at work the whole server
thing - Citrix or otherwise - is so locked down and so remote
that all we can do is send files tb deployed: the Citrix group
does everything else. I haven't even been able to determine
whether the server we are on is actually a PC (i.e. a separate,
distinct box) or some sort of virtual machine inside a mainframe
or something.

What I'd like to do it build my own box just to play around with.
The main reason we deployed a particular app via Citrix was
performance. It was an MS Access app with a JET back end.

Going from the front end on the user's PC to the back end on a
LAN server was killing it: 4-5 seconds to load a screen.

So we moved it to a Citrix server where the front/back ends are
on the same machine: about two seconds to load the same screen.

But my original fantasy was throwing hardware at the performance
issue until we got sub-second response time.

My intent, then, would be to set up a fast PC and see if I can
beat the response times of the "official" server.

Certainly the new HP desktop I just got seems to point in that
direction. That screen I was talking about took 2.something
seconds to load on my old box - yet it's consistently loading in
under a second on the new PC.
--
PeteCresswell

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
> Per Vera Noest [MVP]:
>> OK, then they are running some version of Presentation Server.
>> But what is it that you want? Do you want to use the same version
>> that is used at your work, or the current version, i.e. XenApp?
>> If you want the same version as used at your work, your best chances
>> are to talk to the system manager.
>> Server licenses cost nothing, you pay per client, so maybe the system
>> manager already has a test server available for you to use?
>
> I'm going on the hope that there's some sort of deal where a
> developer can build his own Citrix box and support, say, two
> users for no licensing cost.
>
> The reason I'm pursuing this is that at work the whole server
> thing - Citrix or otherwise - is so locked down and so remote
> that all we can do is send files tb deployed: the Citrix group
> does everything else. I haven't even been able to determine
> whether the server we are on is actually a PC (i.e. a separate,
> distinct box) or some sort of virtual machine inside a mainframe
> or something.
>
> What I'd like to do it build my own box just to play around with.
> The main reason we deployed a particular app via Citrix was
> performance. It was an MS Access app with a JET back end.
>
> Going from the front end on the user's PC to the back end on a
> LAN server was killing it: 4-5 seconds to load a screen.
>
> So we moved it to a Citrix server where the front/back ends are
> on the same machine: about two seconds to load the same screen.
>
> But my original fantasy was throwing hardware at the performance
> issue until we got sub-second response time.
>
> My intent, then, would be to set up a fast PC and see if I can
> beat the response times of the "official" server.
>
> Certainly the new HP desktop I just got seems to point in that
> direction. That screen I was talking about took 2.something
> seconds to load on my old box - yet it's consistently loading in
> under a second on the new PC.

If you have no experience setting up and tuning a Citrix installation,
you are *very* unlikely to "prove" anything. Out of the box. with
defaults will almost certainly end up slowing things down.

Improving an apps performance is best addressed by proper configuration
of the Citrix server/farm.

--

Regards,
Hank Arnold
Microsoft MVP
Windows Server - Directory Services

(PeteCresswell) wrote:
> The main reason we deployed a particular app via Citrix was
> performance. It was an MS Access app with a JET back end.

The "wizard output configuration" for Access applications using the JET
engine works directly on files (via ISAM). This is only efficient for a
small number of concurrent users.


> Going from the front end on the user's PC to the back end on a LAN
> server was killing it: 4-5 seconds to load a screen.

Accessing the files on a file server will of course slow down things
considerably - the additional latency kills a lot of performance.


> So we moved it to a Citrix server where the front/back ends are on
> the same machine: about two seconds to load the same screen.

You might get much better performance improvements by looking into how
your database is stored and remotely accessed.

Loading the database onto a "real", relational, multi-user database
server (e.g. MS SQL Server, MySQL, DB/2, Oracle) should considerably
speed up things. Also don't forget indexes for frequently accessed
tables/keys. (Former co-worker of mine sped up a big iron database app
by a FACTOR of 15 by creating the proper indexes on a DB/2 database.)

> But my original fantasy was throwing hardware at the performance
> issue until we got sub-second response time.

I'd suggest actually profiling the application performance instead of
"doing something at random until it's fast enough". And/or seek help in
one of the database forums.

Of course it's entirely your choice. Have fun! -H

Per Hagen Patzke:
>Loading the database onto a "real", relational, multi-user database
>server (e.g. MS SQL Server, MySQL, DB/2, Oracle) should considerably
>speed up things. Also don't forget indexes for frequently accessed
>tables/keys. (Former co-worker of mine sped up a big iron database app
>by a FACTOR of 15 by creating the proper indexes on a DB/2 database.)

That's the next step. Gonna have the SQL Server pros do that for
us.

The Citrix thing was just a stop-gap.

We're indexed up to our ears.
--
PeteCresswell